12. Why I am not a fan of BYU sports--especially football

It's a long one, sorry.

Since this has fully been argued on my Facebook status, I am copying and pasting (I hope it's not offensive to anyone):

Juan Marquez Max Hall... I don't have a problem so much with his manner of expression or his feelings towards the Utes and their fans (he has a right to be how he wishes), I have a problem with him saying it was "our [BYU] turn to win". THAT is why I have a hard time being a BYU sports fan, sports are NOT religious battles. I will NEVER be a fan of a player (or team) who thinks his (their) fate on the field is predetermined.

El Dom a las 16:18 · Comentar ·

Melissa

i dont think he meant it as fate. he just meant that it was our turn to win. and we did. booya! also its a joke to call it the holy war. it makes it more fun.

El Dom a las 16:33 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

Mhm, right. Undeniably, religion is a huge part of BYU sports. I don't like that.

El Dom a las 16:35 · Eliminar

Melissa

how so? sports are sports.

El Dom a las 16:36 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

http://www.sltrib.com/collegesports/ci_13887313 Read the last paragraph especially.

El Dom a las 16:38 · Eliminar

Melissa

"Doing the right things, on and off the field." it could refer practicing and also sportsmanship. i dont agree how max hall said certain things but that is his opinion and its personal to him. you cant judge one person's comment and make it into a religious sport alma mater. games are games. yes we are seriously passionate about it but it doesnt mean that we believe we are worthy just because we're lds. faith takes work. if they did the work better than the other team then they were prepared and perhaps had also the faith that they may actually play well due to their preparedness. sorry dude but i think your opinion on this is just based on your dislike of BYU in general.

El Dom a las 16:43 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

"Could"? Melissa, there are a lot of things in life that "could" be. Also, look at your contradiction, "faith that they may actually play well due to their preparedness." Perhaps you need to look up the definition of faith, or you don't understand the point of sport "preparedness". Plus, I did not say BYU believes that they're worthy for being LDS. You're missing the point. Most, if not all, of the Utes are LDS too. Hello? Regardless of what you say and of my personal feelings about BYU (which are actually centered mostly around their academic agendas), we CANNOT deny religion is a fundamental part of their sports. THAT is why I am not easily a fan of their sports.

El Dom a las 16:58 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

Simple fact: when BYU wins its because they play better; when the Utes win, its because they play better.

El Dom a las 17:01 · Eliminar

Melissa

What I meant with that is that anyone can believe it is "their time to win" anyone can have a sort of faith in that sense. Its just the biggest rivalry game of the year. What happens in war? Usually both sides pray to win. It's the same feeling in some games. The Utes could have said the same about us if they had won that it was "their time to win" would that have changed your mind?

El Dom a las 17:01 · Eliminar

Jen

I don't think Hall meant that they won because they were LDS. I think he meant they deserved it because they were a better team this year. That said, he shouldn't have said what he did.

El Dom a las 17:03 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

Nope. Are you still denying that religion is a fundamental part of BYU sports?

El Dom a las 17:03 · Eliminar

Melissa

Yes. I don't believe it is the fundamental part of BYU sports. Religion may be the fundamental part of each individual at BYU.

El Dom a las 17:05 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

Your last sentence is very logical, Melissa, and I hope its true in as many individuals there. I can speak for myself when I say that Religion is an extremely fundamental part of who I am in and out of BYU... but not in sports. :)

Jen, I like your comment. You seem to understand that I did not quote him as saying that. I do think he has a right to say what he said, though. Is that right for a Christian to say? No. But who's to stop him? Peoples response to his words, in and of itself, is a way of proving my point. Most people are not upset that he said that from the point of view of sportsmanship but rather from that of religion.

El Dom a las 17:14 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

Melissa, simple yes or no answer... can you play on a BYU team without ecclesiastical endorsement? Haha, JK, now I'm just being goofy. :)

El Dom a las 17:27 · Eliminar

Melissa

Haha. I as an individual have to base my major life decisions on prayer, but that is just me as an individual. I still disagree, however I do recognize that BYU is a private religious school.

El Dom a las 17:37 · Eliminar

Michael

First off, Max Hall was out of place saying what he did. If he wanted to say that in the locker room that would've been fine but not in front of the media. But in defense of BYU sports: Religion is NOT a fundamental part of the program. Yes, religion is key to any LDS individual's life. Every now and then you'll come across some egotistical athlete who thinks he's better than the next. But you'll find similar people at UNC, Stanford, Notre Dame, Texas, ASU, USC...I could go on and on. BYU starts every game with a prayer--but every prayer is for both sides. BYU holds its athletes to higher standards--if you disagree with that then we'll need to have a much more in depth argument... But all in all, to sum it up, BYU has a great program for its size and funding. It's purpose is the same as any other--bring in money for the school.

El Dom a las 17:45 · Eliminar

Melissa

I "like" Michael's comment.

El Dom a las 17:56 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

I "like" Michael's grammar. :) Though you have a very well presented argument and are clear, I disagree that religion is not A (not THE) fundamental part of BYU sports. It may not be in writing in the "program", but BECAUSE religion is so intrinsic and key in most of us BYU students, I feel like it does inevitably become a part of the sports for those involved in BYU athletics. I don't think that is a good thing in sports. Now, I am not saying one should forget one is Christian while playing, I simply hold to my point that it should not influence ones actions, positively or negatively, or perceptions of the sports reality. As to the standards (which you're probably referring to my comment about ecclesiastical endorsement) I don't disagree only because to get into the school, which tends to come first, one needs an endorsement. So it would be foolish to argue that one must be ecclesiastically endorsed to be admitted to the university but not to its sports. As I told Melissa, I was being goofy with that comment.

El Dom a las 18:07 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

I wish I had someone on my side, though. :) LOL.

El Dom a las 18:23 · Eliminar

Eric H

I'll back you up brother. After all the man said he hates me just for being a Utah fan. I think max hall needs to realize he is playing for a church affiliated and his coments not only effect him, but also the church. I wonder if they sang hymn 232 in his ward this morning?

El Dom a las 20:24 · Eliminar

Jen

Juan, (if I get your argument) I do agree with you that religion is a part of BYU sports. It has to be. Religion is a part of everything that we do at BYU. That said, I think that people have an incorrect understanding of how it applies in certain circumstances. Maybe that's what bothers you. Happily (and maybe naïvely), I would tend to think that the players and coaches often have a better perspective on the role of religion in their athletic program than many fans do.

What I like about Bronco Mendenhall is that he tends to embrace the religious aspect and use it to help his players become better people rather than shy away from it. Just because his players fall short of the expectation doesn't mean that we shouldn't attempt it at all. I would hope that the young men that go through his program end up better people for their experience, just like participating in any extracurricular activity at BYU should.

I know that BYU maybe isn't your favorite place (from previous comments), but I loved my experience there and feel like I am better for it. That doesn't mean it's the only place you can go to get a good education or to play on a good team or whatever, but I appreciate its existence and its goals.

Wow. That was long.

El Dom a las 20:29 · Eliminar

Eric P

I don't want to contradict anyone, and I think I get everybody's point. I don't think Max was referring to anything religious with his comment about it being our turn. It was his senior year, last game and he one the best player for Utah last year with 5 Int's. He felt like much of the game rested on his shoulders and prepared enough for it to be his turn to win.

Also, I agree that some people believe it is "destiny" or "religious" when their teams win. That happens all over, not just BYU, Notre Dame or TCU (Texas Christian U-who are ranked 4th in BCS and undefeated...many basing it off religious destiny there, too), but I must point out that religion is a HUGE part of BYU sports, especially football, but just not in the way Juan is projecting. The night before each home game, Coach Mendenhall and the players give a fireside in some local Stake or Ward, the teams refuse to play on Sundays, and if the honor code is broken, players don't play. Religion is fundamental at BYU in every way, shape and form. But that has nothing to do with their winning or losing!! It's just a part of the university.

El Dom a las 20:39 · Eliminar

Juan Marquez

Eric H. there's a reason we both had the same trainer. ;) Thanks hermano! As a BYU student, sorry about the hate that went your way. I'm glad you're a bigger man and not retaliating but instead have "Let us oft speak kind words" in mind. Thanks for seeing that it is him only, not BYU the institution or us, his fellow students. Jen, I LOVED your last comment too (and the last line made me laugh because it wasn't that long). Thanks for helping me put it into better words. If I may quote you, "people have an incorrect understanding of how it [religion] applies in certain circumstances." Yes, that is what bothers me. That precisely! Eric P, like you say, that problem is in many places. The firesides thing is news to me, and I find that interesting and worthy of thought. I'm not sure how you're understanding my projection, but I just want to clarify that I am not implying it is bad for athletes to be religious off the field/court/etc.--it's what Jen said. Unfortunately, I do still feel that is a problem in BYU sports, (like in those other schools--which sports programs I am not a fan of either), especially football. Sorry man.

Finally, Jen, I just want to say that I don't think BYU is bad period, but rather that it is bad for me because it has not fulfilled my own academic needs. But thats life, it happens. No big deal. However, it has done great things too for me and I have learned great things there, which I am grateful for. Perhaps I've been over expressive about my feelings towards BYU before. Let it be known, though, that I do not have the intention of changing anyone's positive opinion of BYU because as it has in your case and many others', it can meet and exceed individuals' needs and expectations, which is undeniable and worthy of mention.

El Dom a las 23:11 ·